Cosworth Turbo F1

"Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken" (Gimmi) 01/26/2014 at 15:42 • Filed to: F1

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Cosworth has revealed their own V6 turbo engine, the fruits of four years of development which will not power any Formula 1 cars this season.

Racecar Engineering reported that "the English company started work on a 2014 engine as long ago as 2010, when the regulations stipulated an I4 layout at the behest of Volkswagen."

However the Wolfsburg based manufacturer canned the project, and Formula 1 regs changed to a V6 turbo configuration which prompted Cosworth, without a backer, to shelve the project.

However the report adds that Cosworth is continuing development of the I4 and V6 turbo engines for an 'undisclosed' supercar project, however should Formula 1 beckon again in the future they will be ready.

Earlier this month Adam Parr, former CEO of Williams F1 team,joined the Cosworth board as non-executive director which suggests that the engine manufacturer has not shut the door on future F1 ventures.

Cosworth powered Formula 1 cars won 165 times out of the 654 grand prix races they contested, between 1963 and 2013. (GP247)

Read more !!!error: Indecipherable SUB-paragraph formatting!!!

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 15:47

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Cozzah i4?
What the...

Any info on that?

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 01/26/2014 at 15:53

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They don't say much, Racecar Engineering had it, basically said, "undisclosed high performance road car project" as well.

Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 15:55

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Well, that's makes me wonder.
I mean, i think i have something to do tonight with automation, making a batshit insane i4!

DasWauto > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 15:59

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The undisclosed roadcar might be the Jag C-X75 and I think the V6 could potentially be used in Le Mans.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 16:28

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This...this right here is pornography.

Victorious Secret > DasWauto 01/26/2014 at 16:46

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If Cosworth did it at the behest of VW, this I4 might actually be what resides/might reside in the new Porsche LMP1 car?

pisswizard69 > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 16:49

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it was also under development for a potential IndyCar customer that never materialized

Blondude > Victorious Secret 01/26/2014 at 16:50

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You might be on to something.

milococo > Aya, Almost Has A Cosmo With Toyota Engine Owned by a BMW. 01/26/2014 at 16:51

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Maybe something to do with this?

DasWauto > Victorious Secret 01/26/2014 at 17:01

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I doubt that. I don't think Cosworth has ever done any engine work for Porsche (aside from Singer but I don't think that counts) or VAG. I think it's more likely that the I4 Turbo that VW considered for F1 evolved into what will be in the back of that Porsche LMP1 car.

Cosworth are historically more connected to FoMoCo and I likely their former subsidiary Jaguar/Aston Martin as well. That's why I think the 4-cylinder in the back of the C-X75 is Cosworth developed. They are more prepared to develop such a powerplant than Jaguar themselves.

I think the Cossie V6 could be a customer engine for LMP cars, with the possibility remaining open for F1 teams.

DasWauto > Victorious Secret 01/26/2014 at 17:04

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Oh and to clarify, Cosworth didn't do anything at the behest of VW. The F1 rules were initially planning for an I4 "at the behest of VW" so Cosworth started work on such a powerplant for F1.

Axel-Ripper > Victorious Secret 01/26/2014 at 17:04

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If it hadn't been confirmed that the Porsche is running a wide angle V4...

Tybera > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/26/2014 at 17:07

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I came. Is that weird?

VictorFch > Blondude 01/26/2014 at 17:11

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Porsche already announced thant the car will feature a new hybrid drivetrain, powered by a four-cylinder engine combined with a battery and large electric motor !

So this V6 will not be in it

Blondude > VictorFch 01/26/2014 at 17:17

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However the report adds that Cosworth is continuing development of the I4 and V6 turbo engines for an 'undisclosed' supercar project, however should Formula 1 beckon again in the future they will be ready.

They have both a V6 and an I4.

ScreenShot > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 17:17

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And all we need is for the chosen 2014 series V6 to fail left and right this year for Cosworth to ride in on white horse and perform yet another F1 rescue.

VictorFch > Blondude 01/26/2014 at 17:19

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excuse me, i read wrong

Blondude > VictorFch 01/26/2014 at 17:20

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No problem.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Tybera 01/26/2014 at 17:39

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No not at all...I definitely did. I think for me it was the carbon air boxes.

OldMarriedDull > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 17:41

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Love how they made that I4 look like a V6.

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > OldMarriedDull 01/26/2014 at 17:46

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They have both of course, did you read or are you trying to be an ass?

JACU - I've got bonifides. > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 18:03

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Which begs the question: "How much is a Cosworth?"

Kookanoodles > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 18:05

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Those new engines may not sound great, but they look fantastic.

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > Kookanoodles 01/26/2014 at 18:07

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Well some of the sounds are nice, I like some of the baritone gurgles the Merc makes on track with their video. We'll get a better idea at the first test.

DudeDoYouEvenPeanutButter > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 18:13

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Cosworth

mitsustiggy > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 18:15

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i will gladly purchase, and insert it into my 69 mini cooper.

Mojonaut > Victorious Secret 01/26/2014 at 18:21

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I think the rule stipulation might have been at the behest of VW, not the request to build an engine. Why would VW enter F1 with someone else's engine when they're very capable of developing their own, very competitive engines, themselves? I don't see the Porsche LMP1 car being any different, and you can bet your shirt that Porsche wouldn't be happy about it being revealed in this manner since they've been at pains to keep it under wraps themselves.

Boomsticktmo > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 18:23

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testing]

OldMarriedDull > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 18:26

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The source article has that photo captioned as an I4.

Victorious Secret > Mojonaut 01/26/2014 at 18:32

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Building F1 engines isn't cheap nor is it for the weary.

Just because VW has the money to, doesn't mean they have the experience even through hiring people.

Its why you have engine makers and chassis makers in F1 to this day. Very few have the resources and knowledge to do both at the same time. VW is no different.

ZiptieMcBumper > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 18:59

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Well, since they're pretty much useless at this point, I'd be happy to take a couple off Cosworth's hands.

jalop1991 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/26/2014 at 19:20

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Nice to look at, sure—but if it makes you jizz in your pants, you need to get out more.

Seriously.

Turd-Polisher > Tybera 01/26/2014 at 19:27

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... s'ok as long as you cuddle afterwords.

RaggedMile > ScreenShot 01/26/2014 at 19:33

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Nah, that's what Hondas doing.

Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius > JACU - I've got bonifides. 01/26/2014 at 19:42

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Or how much is a Duck worth?

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > jalop1991 01/26/2014 at 19:57

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I don't know if you're serious or if you're just really the most unfunny guy that has ever existed on this planet

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Turd-Polisher 01/26/2014 at 20:00

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I feel like a cool-down period might be needed...cuddling with a hot bundle of headers might be painful

Turd-Polisher > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/26/2014 at 20:01

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I'm usually finished before they get warm, so all is good.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Turd-Polisher 01/26/2014 at 20:04

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Hahaha. Two drums and cymbal fall off a cliff

Xentron Holy Reaper of Worlds > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 20:04

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HNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGG...Just adding useful insight to the discussion...

theBKA > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/26/2014 at 20:10

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My thoughts exactly

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > theBKA 01/26/2014 at 20:12

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TwiceAroundTheClock > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 20:17

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Could this engine see a WEC application, perhaps? Weren't the FIA's intentions to start making engine specs (at a basic level) more interchangeable?

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > TwiceAroundTheClock 01/26/2014 at 20:26

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It could, they seem to have other plans and aren't really saying what. VW seems to have abandoned it, I guess we'll see if they use it for something good.

nmalinoski > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 20:36

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Will it fit in my WRX?

redmouseball > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/26/2014 at 20:42

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Those carbon airboxes do strangely resemble welcoming labia if you really think about it...

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > nmalinoski 01/26/2014 at 20:43

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They are pretty compact, I have a former DTM Opel/Cosworth V6 in my Caterham R500. I would think you could with some work.

112358132134 > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 21:23

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+

= next super van

jalop1991 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/26/2014 at 22:01

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Are you serious that this makes you jizz in your pants? Really?

vwtechnician > Victorious Secret 01/26/2014 at 22:11

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You're misreading it. VW wanted an I4 engine configuration in the rules in order for them to participate. Cosworth was developing an I4 engine to meet those regulations to compete against whatever VW was doing.

Widget_Master > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 22:30

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I'd like to order one of those for my Chevy Aveo. It might decrease my commute time.

freds4hb > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 22:35

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Haas USA F1 anyone?

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > freds4hb 01/26/2014 at 22:36

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I'll believe it when I see it

d3v > Victorious Secret 01/26/2014 at 22:57

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More likely that it was what would have been in the Porsche LMP1 before WV canned the project with Cosworth. Meaning that if it is a turbo I4 in the Porsche, it's likely not a Cosworth one anymore.

d3v > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 22:59

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Interesting that the air is coming from both sides whereas the current 2014 F1 applications that have been revealed tend to show air coming in only from one side. This gives us some insight on the packaging, indicating twin intercoolers, one on each side (whereas the 2014 F1 cars seem to have an intercooler on one side and a radiator on the other).

d3v > Drakkon- Most Glorious and Upright Person of Genius 01/26/2014 at 23:02

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Computing the Costin's of an engine are we?

Dennis loves you too > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/26/2014 at 23:55

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well if your gona just shelf it how bout a trade for a 140,000 mile N/A Honda 3.2 v6 straight up trade !!!

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > jalop1991 01/27/2014 at 01:00

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Dude...really? Look if you're only like 11 or something...stop reading here. Otherwise...

holy shit do you still not understand what a joke is? Did you just discover the internet at the very second you saw my post? I really don't know how else you could still not get it. Or that you couldn't have gotten it within .00345 seconds of seeing what I wrote.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > redmouseball 01/27/2014 at 01:04

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Hmmm...yes...I would have to agree with you here sir.

205_Tsixteen > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/27/2014 at 01:51

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Well, it seems it's because the lack of customer teams that they lack, I think. (Marussia's the only ones using Cosworth last year, and they moved to Ferrari for this year). http://www.f1sa.com/index.php?opti…

Well, it seems that if a new team comes to 2015, they might use this engine. And hope it won't be bad.

But, if not in F1, then what?

Xelmon > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/27/2014 at 02:05

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Cosworth is not going to power any F1 cars? Why in the blue feathery heavens not?

Gimmi, in your opinion is this due to cost or politics?

Also, saw another post... You have a what in your R500!?! How the hell did you get that, connections with the Godfather? XD

Mojonaut > Victorious Secret 01/27/2014 at 04:21

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If VW has the experience to build a diesel hybrid for endurance racing via Audi, it has the wherewithal to build an F1 engine.

Suckysucky5dolls > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/27/2014 at 05:27

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On a serious note: whats with the kinks on the exhaust pipe, i thought air flows faster throught smooth bends then squeezed kinks?

jalop1991 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/27/2014 at 05:43

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ummmm.....just wow. Did *you* just ask *me* if I don't understand what a joke is?

Good Christ. Go back to the top, take a five mile step back, and read everything again.

McChiken116 - Patrick H. > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/27/2014 at 08:11

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Didn't Cosworth go bankrupt?

Aj Larsen > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/27/2014 at 08:29

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LOVE these covers.

carphanatik > jalop1991 01/27/2014 at 10:50

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I'm not sure why you're picking this thread to take people's obvious jokes as reality. Clearly nobody ACTUALLY came looking at these pictures.

Except for me.

philipilihp > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/27/2014 at 11:21

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Is it too late to crowdsource/-fund a Jalopnik-Opposite Lock F1 team with this Cossy V6...?

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > Aj Larsen 01/27/2014 at 12:59

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Yeah pretty sexy

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > Xelmon 01/27/2014 at 13:11

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As to the politics I am not really sure how it played out but Cosworth didn't have enough customers, everyone wanted the Renault if they could get it at the time. In the end the cost was too high with too few customers so it wasn't possible to stay. I think it was a bit under powered and they couldn't afford to keep developing either. I have an RA107 which was a Cosworth built for Opel, used in DTM. It is in the R500 we chopped up and added to, I wouldn't even call it a Caterham anymore haha. You can buy them, lots of race engines out there for sale due to not being used, spare parts etc.

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > 205_Tsixteen 01/27/2014 at 13:14

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Yeah they were under powered and couldn't afford to develop with so few customers. They don't say what the other projects would be but there aren't too many options.

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > philipilihp 01/27/2014 at 13:15

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I have no idea how many people comment or read Jalopnik. It worked for Kamui, but for a team you need major sponsorship for a long while!

Aj Larsen > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/27/2014 at 13:22

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Will this engine fit in an 06 Civic Si? Please?

El_Royo > jalop1991 01/27/2014 at 13:24

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why did you try to ruin this conversation twice? they're trying to have a fun joking conversation and you had to be the momentum killer. i hate people like you

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > jalop1991 01/27/2014 at 13:30

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Wait...what? Are there two different people writing your posts? I did read...YOU ASKED ME IF I WAS SERIOUS AND THEN RIDICULED ME lol. I was joking...even told you so...and then you asked AGAIN if I was serious....I'm really so confused here.

Can someone else, like, help me here? I don't get this guy at all.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Suckysucky5dolls 01/27/2014 at 13:32

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It does but at some point you have to bring the pipes back to the rear of the car. Also, it's important for the length travelled for each path of gasses to be the same...therefore each pipe is curved in different ways in order to make all the lengths the same while still fitting within the space constraints. Also, you can actually use the shape of the header to improve exhaust gas collection from the combustion chamber by changing the shape of the pulse waves inside the tubing.

El_Royo > carphanatik 01/27/2014 at 14:59

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i tried

El_Royo > Suckysucky5dolls 01/27/2014 at 15:02

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you mean the vibration absorber?

BrianMadigan > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/27/2014 at 15:42

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Gear driven cams, methinks.

jalop1991 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/27/2014 at 16:53

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I love living rent-free...

Sebastián Peñuela > Widget_Master 01/27/2014 at 22:25

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... And spend less fuel in the process.

Xelmon > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/27/2014 at 23:04

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@ Cosworth: Ah, so Renault had the pre-orders and the clout. Figures.

@ R500: Ahhaaaa, you mentioned that you did lots of crazy things to it. I looked up the V6 later at work, I hope you didn't pay $25K for it...

Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken > Xelmon 01/27/2014 at 23:21

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The Renault V8 was a slightly more powerful engine than the Ferrari, so it was said, and it was just as reliable. I can see why people wanted it. Our engine belonged to someone I knew, I didn't really go looking for it. It didn't cost that much but I wouldn't say it was cheap.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > jalop1991 01/27/2014 at 23:26

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10/10 would be trolled again

Xelmon > Gimmi-Sagan-Om-Draken 01/27/2014 at 23:51

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Ah-hah, it is all clear now. =D

jalop1991 > Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment 01/28/2014 at 05:41

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"trolled"? Man, how old are you, anyway? "Wah! Mommy! He said something I don't like! Make him stop! He's a TROLL!"

God forbid the world doesn't go your way.

Here's a clue: just because you don't like it, doesn't make it a "trolling" event.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > jalop1991 01/28/2014 at 14:09

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Yet another joke went right over your head. I was actually giving you a bit of a compliment....I guess you're too stupid to figure that out.

Also...this whole thread all you've done is troll. Textbook. But just know that I was laughing at you the whole time. I sincerely hope all your posts aren't this pathetic...because then I'd genuinely feel sorry for you. Not in the least because you have the worst sense of humor I've ever encountered in a human being this side of Kim Jong Il. I mean, again, if this is another troll attempt...you're nailing it. If not, please kindly take any device you own that can possibly connect to the internet and sell it, get rid of it, whatever you have to do. Because you cannot keep up. You are absolutely unfit to use the internet in its entirety. Please, kindly, see yourself out. And don't ever show your face here again.

kniga > Xelmon 01/29/2014 at 07:18

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It's because of business related reasons. Ever since Ford parted its way with Cosworth, Cosworth stayed as the only for-profit F1 engine manufacturer since the mid-00s. To be able to stay in this business, Cosworth needed a lot of cusomers, unlike other manufacturers who can swallow R&D costs because building the engines promotes the brands of road-going cars.

Cosworth had four solid customers in 2010. That was plenty. Then Caterham switched to Renault in 2011 and Williams switched to the same Renault in 2012. Cosworth said that even with two customers it can afford the development of the new 2014 V6 engine. However, once HRT went out of F1 business, Cosworth was left with only one customer, Marussia. If you have been following F1 in the last few years, it's one of those three new and perpetually broke team that hasn't scored in four years. At that point Cosworth withdrew and Marussia switched to Mercedes engines. There is really no room for a "for-profit" engine manufacturer these days. If Cosworth partners with a major car manufacturer, it could be back in business.